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I'm having trouble copying all the Cylinders (40) of a Kaypro II Boot Floppy.

My Software displays "SuperCard Pro Archiver v1.30 Hardware v1.1 - Firmware v1.0"

A New DSDD Floppy was used to make a copy of my Kaypro II Boot Disk, created on
my Kaypro II with a SSDD 48 TPI Floppy Drive.

I copied that Boot Floppy on my SuperCard Pro using a 1.2 Meg TEAC DSDD 96 TPI Floppy Drive.
I selected 96 TPI and "HIGH" Density in the Drive settings. Using the CP/M Selection,
I only have 0 thru 42 Cylinders available. I left the "DEFAULT" of 0 thru 42 selected for "CP/M" &
"INDEX".

My SCP file information is: 8885113 Jul 9 17:19 KP2Boot2.scp

I use SAMdisk to scan this file, and I see the following results:
[KP2Boot2.scp]
Warning: 36 missing or invalid stream tracks
40 Cyls, 2 Heads:
300Kbps MFM, 2 sectors, 512 bytes/sector:
0.0 0[g1226] 6
300Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector:
1.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
2.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
3.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
4.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
5.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
6.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
7.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
8.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
9.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
10.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
11.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
12.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
13.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
14.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
15.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
16.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
17.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
18.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
19.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
20.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
21.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
22.0 missing
23.0 missing
24.0 missing
25.0 missing
26.0 missing
27.0 missing
28.0 missing
29.0 missing
30.0 missing
31.0 missing
32.0 missing
33.0 missing
34.0 missing
35.0 missing
36.0 missing
37.0 missing
38.0 missing
39.0 missing
0.1 <blank>
1.1 <blank>
2.1 <blank>
3.1 <blank>
4.1 <blank>
5.1 <blank>
6.1 <blank>
7.1 <blank>
8.1 <blank>
9.1 <blank>
10.1 <blank>
11.1 <blank>
12.1 <blank>
13.1 <blank>
14.1 <blank>
15.1 <blank>
16.1 <blank>
17.1 <blank>
18.1 <blank>
19.1 <blank>
20.1 <blank>
21.1 <blank>
22.1 missing
23.1 missing
24.1 missing
25.1 missing
26.1 missing
27.1 missing
28.1 missing
29.1 missing
30.1 missing
31.1 missing
32.1 missing
33.1 missing
34.1 missing
35.1 missing
36.1 missing
37.1 missing
38.1 missing
39.1 missing

I then selected IBM 720K 3.5" Floppy and created KP2Boot3.scp
My SCP file information is: 16956903 Jul 9 17:22 KP2Boot3.scp

I use SAMdisk to scan this file, and I see the following results:
[KP2Boot3.scp]
40 Cyls, 2 Heads:
300Kbps MFM, 2 sectors, 512 bytes/sector:
0.0 0[g1226] 6
300Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector:
1.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
2.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
3.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
4.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
5.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
6.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
7.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
8.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
9.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
10.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
11.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
12.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
13.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
14.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
15.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
16.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
17.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
18.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
19.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
20.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
21.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
22.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
23.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
24.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
25.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
26.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
27.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
28.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
29.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
30.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
31.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
32.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
33.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
34.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
35.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
36.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
37.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
38.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
39.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
0.1 <blank>
1.1 <blank>
2.1 <blank>
3.1 <blank>
4.1 <blank>
5.1 <blank>
6.1 <blank>
7.1 <blank>
8.1 <blank>
9.1 <blank>
10.1 <blank>
11.1 <blank>
12.1 <blank>
13.1 <blank>
14.1 <blank>
15.1 <blank>
16.1 <blank>
17.1 <blank>
18.1 <blank>
19.1 <blank>
20.1 <blank>
21.1 <blank>
22.1 <blank>
23.1 <blank>
24.1 <blank>
25.1 <blank>
26.1 <blank>
27.1 <blank>
28.1 <blank>
29.1 <blank>
30.1 <blank>
31.1 <blank>
32.1 <blank>
33.1 <blank>
34.1 <blank>
35.1 <blank>
36.1 <blank>
37.1 <blank>
38.1 <blank>
39.1 <blank>

I'd previously sent a copy of my .SCP to Jean-Francois DEL NERO & Jeff @ HxC, along with Simon Owen, because
I couldn't get a copy that would boot with SAMdisk or the HxC Floppy Emulator Software.

Jean-Francois DEL NERO & Jeff's reply was:
Quote:The disk is in good condition. BUT, it seems that there is a double step setting problem : I think that you have only the half of the floppy.
The Kaypro disk have 40 tracks but these one are twice "wider" on the disk.
If you are using an 80 tracks floppy drive you need to dump 80 tracks OR, if the SCP software allows this, enable an double step mode : 1 track= 2 head step.

Redump your disk to have all the tracks and send me again the SCP file.

and:
Quote:Same thing : There is only 40 tracks in single step.

Please redump it with 80 tracks.


Likewise Simon Owen replied:
Quote:I think the problem might be a a 48tpi vs 96tpi issue, as all the disk image you sent seem to need double-stepping.
For example, if you scan the first 6 tracks of the SCP image using: SAMdisk scan -c6 -h0 KP2Boot1.scp you get the following output:

[KP2Boot1.scp]
6 Cyls, Head 0:
300Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector:
0.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
Warning: late track start may indicate missing first sector
300Kbps MFM, 1 sector, 512 bytes:
1.0 9[dc,g2710]
300Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=1:
2.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
300Kbps MFM, 1 sector, 512 bytes, c=2:
3.0 9[dc,g2711]
300Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=2:
4.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
5.0 <blank>

That initially looks quite a mess, with some warnings and different numbers of sectors per track. Though if you look more closely you'll see
the even tracks appear to be correct, and the junk is on the odd tracks. Also, the c=1, c=2 at the end of alternate headers suggests the cyl
value in the sector header is half what it should be. Scanning the image again with the -d option to double-step gives better results:

6 Cyls, Head 0:
300Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector:
0.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
1.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
2.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
3.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
4.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
5.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5

That looks much more normal! Each track has 10x512-byte MFM sectors, starting with sector id 0. However, all the disk images are
40 tracks and 2 sides, and double-stepping it reduces that to 20 tracks and 2 sides. So you will need to tell the SuperCard Pro software
to dump 80 tracks, or convince it to double-step a true 40 tracks. Scanning the image as I've done above should confirm whether it's correct.

Hopefully that'll fix it, but give me a shout if you have any trouble!

Is it possible to expand the Cylinders to 80 for CP/M to get all 40 Cylinders copied correctly in a 96 TPI Drive,
or can a .SCP be created of a CP/M Floppy with the IBM 3.5" 720K selection?

Will you please verify my test results, and tell me what I need to do, or select, to make a proper 40 Cylinder .SCP file from the CP/M SSDD
Boot Floppy using a 1.2M 5.25" 96 TPI Teac Floppy Drive.

If you need a copy of my .SCP file, I can upload it to my Google Drive. Just let me know.

THANKS.

Larry
First of all, don't use HIGH DENSITY - those disks are all LOW DENSITY, and high density will not read or write correctly. Secondly, use the C64 mode - that does the double stepping for the 5.25" disks. The 3.5" disk looks correct for a single-sided disk.

Now, having said all of this... you only need to do that for SAMDisk because apparently Simon doesn't look at the info about the disk. You should be able to use any of the modes really and generate a working real disk because the half tracks would be copied (and not used).

Ideally for you, if you are only dealing with 48TPI disks, you should look at getting a 48 TPI drive. The heads are quite a bit wider, which makes reading and writing much more reliable.
OK, I've ripped a Mitsubishi Model M4851-112U 360K DSDD Floppy drive from a friends Leading Edge Model "M".

I've read my Kaypro CP/M Boot floppy with my Supercard Pro, set for a 48 TPI Drive with "LOW Density Read & Write"
and 40 Cylinders with "CP/M" and "INDEX". The Drive is Strapped for DS1, and is on the End Edge Connector of your cable,
which is Drive 0 (via twisted cable) to the SuperCard Pro.

Here is what SAMdisk detects from the KP2Boot2.scp image:
Quote:[KP2Boot2.scp]
Warning: 40 missing or invalid stream tracks
40 Cyls, 2 Heads:
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector:
0.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=2:
1.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=4:
2.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=6:
3.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=8:
4.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=10:
5.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=12:
6.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=14:
7.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=16:
8.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=18:
9.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=20:
10.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=22:
11.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=24:
12.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=26:
13.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=28:
14.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=30:
15.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=32:
16.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=34:
17.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=36:
18.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
250Kbps MFM, 10 sectors, 512 bytes/sector, c=38:
19.0 0 8 3 6 1 9 4 7 2 5
20.0 missing
21.0 missing
22.0 missing
23.0 missing
24.0 missing
25.0 missing
26.0 missing
27.0 missing
28.0 missing
29.0 missing
30.0 missing
31.0 missing
32.0 missing
33.0 missing
34.0 missing
35.0 missing
36.0 missing
37.0 missing
38.0 missing
39.0 missing
0.1 <blank>
1.1 <blank>
2.1 <blank>
3.1 <blank>
4.1 <blank>
5.1 <blank>
6.1 <blank>
7.1 <blank>
8.1 <blank>
9.1 <blank>
10.1 <blank>
11.1 <blank>
12.1 <blank>
13.1 <blank>
14.1 <blank>
15.1 <blank>
16.1 <blank>
17.1 <blank>
18.1 <blank>
19.1 <blank>
20.1 missing
21.1 missing
22.1 missing
23.1 missing
24.1 missing
25.1 missing
26.1 missing
27.1 missing
28.1 missing
29.1 missing
30.1 missing
31.1 missing
32.1 missing
33.1 missing
34.1 missing
35.1 missing
36.1 missing
37.1 missing
38.1 missing
39.1 missing

Do you think it's possible I have a bad drive that is causing this problem? That old Leading Edge Model "M" has a second Floppy
I'm going to rip out and test. What do you think the chances are that both Floppy's will give duplicate results? Or do you have any
other suggestions for me to try?

Thanks.

Larry
If you are using a real 48TPI drive, then you can't use the C64 mode since that copies only one side. You would need to use the IBM360 setting. I don't know if Simon looks at the SCP image's ID to determine the disk structure. If so, that could be the problem as I changed some of the IDs.
Jim,
I've got it figured out, I think. Using a 48 TPI Floppy your Software reads all the (40) tracks.
It worked the first time I tested, but I had used the -d switch with SAMdisk which double
stepped the head, and making it appear to have missed tracks. I've copied the KP2Boot1.SCP
file to A: with SAMdisk and it boots and the software functions properly on my Kaypro II.

I'm thinking your software will also work when using a DSDD 360K Floppy in a 96 TPI drive.
You would need to create a New Drive Type 1.2M. Then, also in the Pulldown menu for Drive
Settings, just add a selection for Double Step or Single Step. That way the user can select
the step rate.

Either way, why don't you also add a Drive Type of 1.2M DSHD IBM type?

Thanks.

Larry
I am changing the way all of the drive control works to a typical layout - where select side 0 or side 1, or both... drive type, step type, etc. It's all going to be much different than it is now. What I wanted was a various list of disk types that simply "auto fill" in the data that you can also set manually. The "disk type" would then only be used as the ID for the image file, since you could manually alter things as well.
Jim,
Yes, I agree with having the SuperCard Pro Software for manually selecting 96 or 48 TPI, One or Two Heads, Number of Cylinders,
Single or Double Step, LOW or HIGH Density, etc. That makes it a lot more flexible, as far as using a 360K Floppy in a
1.2M Teac DSHD 96 TPI Drive. Most folks using this software have enough knowledge to fill in those specifications properly
because they understand the formatted Tracks, the type Floppy being used, the Density, The sectors per track, and the
number of heads. Worst case, they would have to try Single Step or Double step and one of those choices would give
them a properly read CP/M Floppy into a .SCP file.

The other thing you might think about doing, if you don't want to totally rework the Drive Setting Interface, would be to just add
a Menu Item in the Top Pulldown, for Single or Double Step. That should be an easy modification. Then Just add a Drive Type for
1.2M, with the specifications for an IBM style 1.2M Floppy. You would also need to then ALLOW the User to adjust the
END of the Track Slider to 84 Tracks. In fact, you might not even need to change anything in the Stepping, because opening
up the MAX ENDING TRACK would allow the complete Floppy to be read (because I read a Complete SSDD CP/M Floppy by using
a 3.5" IBM Type Drive setting with 80 Tracks) . Or you could automatically select the Stepping by knowing the Density, and the
MAX End TRACK. All these changes should should be easier to do than rework the complete Interface.

If you want to try that first, I'll volunteer to Beta Test your modifications after you change it, and test it on your Floppy's.
I can test With Ampro Z80 Little Board DSDD Floppy's, Radio Shack Model 4 Montezuma Micro CP/M Floppy's DSDD,
Kaypro II SSDD and Kaypro IV DSDD Floppy's, and Radio Shack Model 3 Floppy's (NewDos 80).

Last night I read in the first 15 of many boxes of Kaypro II ORIGINAL Floppy's to .SCP files. I'll be glad when I've
got them backed up Electronically.

Thanks.

Larry
Happy to see that the software is about to be updated with sevral options Wink
I agree to test any beta version if it can help you (Jim) to develop and all of us in the future.

Regards
(07-11-2014, 02:09 AM)ldkraemer Wrote: [ -> ]Jim,
Yes, I agree with having the SuperCard Pro Software for manually selecting 96 or 48 TPI, One or Two Heads, Number of Cylinders,
Single or Double Step, LOW or HIGH Density, etc. That makes it a lot more flexible, as far as using a 360K Floppy in a
1.2M Teac DSHD 96 TPI Drive. Most folks using this software have enough knowledge to fill in those specifications properly
because they understand the formatted Tracks, the type Floppy being used, the Density, The sectors per track, and the
number of heads.

Actually, that's not the case. Most people using SCP don't even know what a 'disk format' is. They just want to be able to select a disk type and it all happens magically without any type of knowledge at all required. There are only a few people that actually want advanced capabilities.

I have Kaypro II and TRS-80 machines here for testing. I backed up everything I have using a standard 5.25 96 TPI (1.2M) drive. So, it all works just fine.
Jim,
May I ask what was your setting for Drive Type, to allow reading the 40 tracks of a Kaypro II SSDD Floppy in the 96 TPI Drive?
I've tried CP/M (MAX End track is set at 40 divided by 2 for Double Step), IBM 3.5 720 (Max End Track is 80), and C64
(I forget the Max End Track), but only the IBM 3.5" 720K gave me a full read of the CP/M Floppy. Unless I missed something.

Thanks.

Larry
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