The Mirror Copier backup issues?
#1
Hello All,

I think I did successfully copy the Mirror Copier disk to an scp image. I used 3 and 4 revs, just to try and get the best image backup of it. I would have gone through with 5 revs, but when I try that I get the disk error "Read length > RAM capacity!". Any ideas? Is this okay or normal for a disk similar to this (being a copier/alignment disk)? I am backing this up form an Original disk too.

I ran the backup scp image in winuae and it appears to load the copier just fine as far as i've tested it. The other error that I get is if I try to create a adf image from the scp image I get the disk error "Image file is not for an Amiga Disk". I'm having success with other disks so far. Every other disk i've tried converting the scp image to adf hasn't given me any issue.
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#2
If you get the RAM error, then reduce the number of revolutions. You don't need any more than 2 revolutions ever to make a copy of any disk. The extra revolution support is there for purist that want more samples of the same data.

Are you sure you made the image file with the disk type set to Amiga? Please keep in mind that you won't be able to convert most any commercial game or utility program to adf format because of copy protection. WinUAE supports .scp image files because they offer support for copy protected disks.
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#3
Okay, I was using someones method about using 3 minimum revs and more if a backup doesn't work. Guess that theory is debunked then. Anyway, 2 revs would not work (the image would not boot inside winuae), where as 3 and 4 would work in winuae and 5 gave me the Ram error. Yes, I'm positive that the scp was ran with Amiga mode for disk type selected each and every time. Otherwise it would not have worked in winuae, correct? All had 80 tracks. All 3 versions would not convert over to adf. I guess it is just a copy protection issue as you stated and that it's causing SCPro to throw that error "Image file is not for an Amiga disk".

Thanks for the update too, I had forgot about that scp vs adf and copy protected disks wouldn't convert to adf or at least in most circumstances. Just got back into having 70 more disks to archive. So, I'm a bit bamboozled then on why 2 revs for this disk did not work in winuae vs more revs, if more than 2 revs are never needed. I'll have to try this again with 2 revs I suppose.

Edit: I tried another backup with 2 revs only and it still doesn't boot/load into the copier. Only a rev 3 and 4 will boot/load okay.

I'm also getting a weird issue with an original game that I'm trying to backup, Seven Cities of Gold. No matter if I make an adf or scp it guru's on me with A1000 or A500 with kicks 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 all in winuae. I'll have to test the original in one of my real Amiga's as I've not done that just yet. i guess it could be a bad original.

I'm also using Hardware v1.1 and Firmware v1.2 on the SCPro.
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#4
(03-12-2019, 07:58 AM)grider Wrote: Okay, I was using someones method about using 3 minimum revs and more if a backup doesn't work. Guess that theory is debunked then. Anyway, 2 revs would not work (the image would not boot inside winuae), where as 3 and 4 would work in winuae and 5 gave me the Ram error.

This sounds like you are not cleaning the disk drive heads!  Just about every time you dump a disk you are going to need to clean the disk drive heads.  The oxide is coming off of the disk surface due to the passage of time!  This oxide collects on the heads and distorts the reading (and writing).  Cleaning is not optional.


grider Wrote:Yes, I'm positive that the scp was ran with Amiga mode for disk type selected each and every time. Otherwise it would not have worked in winuae, correct?

No.  The disk type is ignored with WinUAE.  You can use Amiga, PC, Mac, and other disk types with a real Amiga so the disk type is not used.


grider Wrote:All had 80 tracks. All 3 versions would not convert over to adf. I guess it is just a copy protection issue as you stated and that it's causing SCPro to throw that error "Image file is not for an Amiga disk".

No, SuperCard Pro doesn't know anything about disks.  Please send me the .scp file you dumped of this disk to data @ cbmstuff.com.  I can look at the image and tell you if your heads are dirty, drive speed is varying, and check the disk type.  This particular disk (like 99.999% of all commercial disks) will not work when converted to .adf because it has copy protection.


grider Wrote:Thanks for the update too, I had forgot about that scp vs adf and copy protected disks wouldn't convert to adf or at least in most circumstances. Just got back into having 70 more disks to archive. So, I'm a bit bamboozled then on why 2 revs for this disk did not work in winuae vs more revs, if more than 2 revs are never needed. I'll have to try this again with 2 revs I suppose.

LOL!  If you archived more than a hand full of disks without cleaning the heads and had good results that would be surprising!


grider Wrote:Edit: I tried another backup with 2 revs only and it still doesn't boot/load into the copier. Only a rev 3 and 4 will boot/load okay.

This is because WinUAE's .scp support allows the disk to "spin" multiple times while trying to decode sectors from poor data. The issue you are having is either drive speed (bad power supply to the drive or the drive itself) or the the heads and/or disk are dirty.  This is the #1 reason for failures identical to what you have described.


grider Wrote:I'm also getting a weird issue with an original game that I'm trying to backup, Seven Cities of Gold. No matter if I make an adf or scp it guru's on me with A1000 or A500 with kicks 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 all in winuae. I'll have to test the original in one of my real Amiga's as I've not done that just yet. i guess it could be a bad original.

Make sure you are using the 68000 7MHz mode.  A lot of the older Amiga games couldn't handle accelerator boards.
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#5
When did I say I wasn't cleaning the disk heads? I'll try another drive. Maybe you're right on the speed variance of the drive. Don't know. I've got plenty of the recommended drives though! If it doesn't work there with 2 revs, then I'll send you that non working scp image? I'll follow up when I get time, maybe tonight.
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#6
When you dump more than 1 rev you are just dumping the same data over and over again. If the data changes, it is due to variances in the reading of that disk drive. I will know right away when I look at the flux graphically using the editor/analyzer. I didn't say you weren't cleaning the heads, but the description of your problem is *exactly* what happens when the heads and/or disk are dirty. How are you cleaning your heads?
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#7
(03-12-2019, 06:23 PM)admin Wrote: When you dump more than 1 rev you are just dumping the same data over and over again.  If the data changes, it is due to variances in the reading of that disk drive.  I will know right away when I look at the flux graphically using the editor/analyzer.  I didn't say you weren't cleaning the heads, but the description of your problem is *exactly* what happens when the heads and/or disk are dirty.  How are you cleaning your heads?

Please let me know if you have better instructions, but, I'm using 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean the heads and disks with long stem q-tips. Anyway I tried a new drive after cleaning the disk heads and disk again and it looks like the same result. I'm going to zip up my 2 rev splice image and e-mail it to the address above you mentioned. At least by what you mentioned you can tel me what the issue is. Maybe it's time to get a new drive, ugh. You should have the image shortly...
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#8
I *always* use the disk cleaner disks with 91% alcohol. The swabs don't work unless you scrub really hard, which is difficult to do (specially the top head). The disk cleaner disks are abrasive and do the best job of cleaning heads.
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#9
(03-13-2019, 12:04 AM)admin Wrote: I *always* use the disk cleaner disks with 91% alcohol.  The swabs don't work unless you scrub really hard, which is difficult to do (specially the top head).  The disk cleaner disks are abrasive and do the best job of cleaning heads.

Okay Great, thanks Jim! I'll order a few disk cleaners off Ebay, unless you know a different source to go to. Yeah, even though i've been cleaning the drive I was wondering if I was getting each head clean using the cotton swab.
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#10
I got some from eBay and some from Amazon. I have gone through several sets (they do wear out), but I have dumped literally thousands of disks!
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